Category: Zone BBS Icon 2006
I decided to start a new topic on this, because the “zone icon shake up” topic was initially started for one person to express his views about how he personally was treated, and I therefore didn’t think it appropriate to widen the debate on that particular topic.
Zone icon is nearing its conclusion, with only two shows left now, it won’t be long before the winner of zone icon 2006 is announced. So, what lessons, if any, could be learned from the experience? And what could be done differently to improve things for future shows? My personal opinion is:
The competition was poorly planned. The organizers had an idea of what they wanted to achieve, but in reality, they didn’t really know how they were going to achieve it. The arrangements appear to have been made as they went along, e.g. contestants were not made aware until such point as they had reached the top ten, that they would actually be expected to commit a considerable amount of time, about a day a week, to recordings for the shows. As a result of this, one of the most talented contestants in the competition felt that she was unable to commit to this amount of time, and felt that she had to withdraw as a result. Had she known, I would imagine that it is unlikely that she would have entered in the first place.
I think communication of rules/procedures/developments was poor. When Aaron was removed from the icon staff, the first anyone knew about it was when he posted to the zone boards. Had he not posted, I believe it is unlikely that we would have been made aware as to the reasons for his dismissal. I think that although he broke the rules, the rules themselves were flawed, but I shall come to that in due course.
I think that the production of the icon shows themselves has been excellent. I know how hard it is to put something together that Is of high enough audio quality to enable it to be produced to the masses, and I think that the audio production team did a fantastic job.
So what would I do differently if I were responsible for icon?
Firstly I would set out a clear list of rules for contestants. A list setting out very clearly what their expected commitments to the show would be, and what guidelines had to be followed in order to stay in the competition. Those rules would be applicable from the start of the competition, and would not be subject to change throughout. Secondly, I would request that all initial entries were submitted without a backing track. I personally believe that when people enter into a competition, they should all do so on equal footing, and I therefore believe that by making every contestant submit their first entry akapella would make the judging of the top ten a fairer process. I would also find outside judges, although I do understand that this is not an easy process, but I think that when the community is so small, there is a risk that a judge could be biased, especially if they know any of the contestants on a more personal level. I do not actually think that any of the judges on here have been biased towards any of the contestants, but I do think that it could very easily happen. Once you got to the top ten you could have internal judges, as they don’t have any input into the voting and are merely there to pass comment on performance.
With regard to staff privileges, I believe that info such as voting stats shouldn’t be available to anyone until the stats are published openly on the site. No-one needs to have this information, and it would prevent any info getting out into the wider domaine such as appeared to happen with Aaron. Had he not had access to the info, he could not have discussed it. There is no reason for the judges to know what is happening with the voting, and the less they no, the less chance there is of anyone being accused of vote rigging.
Lastly, I wouldn’t record the shows live, and I wouldn’t give the contestants the choice of the songs they sang, well not quite anyway. I would give each contestant a choice of three songs, and would supply them with the backing tracks, for each genre, and I would give them maybe 24 hours notice to record said songs and submit the recording to the audio team. At that time, which would be prearranged by the audio team, they could come online and do their interview as well. Would save a lot of time, and would give the contestants a lot more freedom, and actually IMO would give the audio team more freedom as well as they could mix in the interviews/tracks at a time more convenient to them.
I think the concept of icon is great, but I think that as this was the first one, there is a lot to learn from the experience.
i'm sure peple would still find something to bitch about!
These are all very good ideas and I'd love to see another Icon, but as many people that have bashed it and everything, I doubt there will be another one next year. I certainly hope there is anyway. My husband does production and I know just working on a 20 second promo can take him hours. So I totally see how much work goes into the audio team and how much work they have to do. I think they do an awesome job. But I think Icon could have been done a little differently but I hope they continue it none the less.
I guess it depends on peoples' views and whether they want to do something similar next year. I think that if they can take some criticism on board, can build on that, and can make some changes, then icon could be relaunched next year and could be bigger and better than this year, but sadly I think that if they decide not to go ahead with icon again next year, then people will remember icon as having been a failure, which is sad, because a lot of work did go into the actual production of icon, and no-one can take that away from the audio team.
The problem with allowing the contestants to prerecord their songs is that there are definitely some people who have access to recording studios. It would be very easy to rig a performance with a piece of software like Autotune, or even to go back in, and punch in over bad spots. I know that if I were given the opportunity to prerecord, that's exactly what I would do. Other than that, your ideas seem decent.
Hey there gang. I just finished reading all of the posts on this bord. Claire, I love your writing and I love the way you get to the point. Furst of all, I want people to know that I loved Icon. The idea is a great one, and it brings the community together in fair competition. However, it has been said that rules need to be written out for staff and contestants. I so agree with that fact. The staff of Icon do not have a clear set of rules written down and available to the public. The contestants do. I was the one who wrote them and they were approved before put on the icon site at the start. however the rules never made it clear about the amount of time that would be needed for the contestants to come on weekends and record. I hope we do have another icon in the future, and if we do, I am so going to enter as a contestant. I think however when the new Icon is constituted, it needs to have and entirely new staff behind it. I think that a fresh perspective would bring something different to it all. Also more information needs to be made public. All this secret stuff just don't fly in a small community. I am all for keeping voting stats quiet, but other than that, people need to know stuff. The meetings were secret, butall of you zoners knew when they were happening because you saw us in the icon channel. It might be a good idea to have a public version of the meeting minutes available to the public so that they know what is going on, and they might have ideas to help the show. ya know? Two heads are better than one kind of deal. Icon has turned into something that may have effected friendships, and I sincerely hope that is not the case, but in the end, we all want to know who will win this. Let us all learn from this experience and make Icon 2007 a better one. Like a bird learning to fly, Icon can continue. Next season it will arise and be fabulous! Of that I have no doubt. take care my dear zoners.
Hello all,
Well it might be true that people might have stuff to bitch about, but I have a few things to say. I think The Zone Icon audio team has done a great job with making the show sound real and they puta lot of good hard work into what they do and that's great and I think we all appreciate it because without them, where would the show be? Anyway, I think written out rules would be good. I think when the judges say what theme each week is going to be done, like when they said modern pop, I think they should be more specific on what they are talking about. I had to ask a few people does modern pop mean stuff from this year, or stuff from the 2000's in general, and most people said, that's a good question and I don't know. So when it comes to broad things like that, maybe give a little more of a clue. I'm glad though that when Christina said showtoons, and said broadway musicals, that helped people know what they're suppose to do, so I have to give her credit for that. Another thing that they have to take into consideration and I'm not saying this to poorly judge anyone, it's just a suggestion, is that when you have different people from different countries sing, either if there's a way to have some kind of idea of what singing in their country sounds like so you don't judge them wrongly, especially if they sing in a different language. I'm good with music from around the world, and once when Athier said that Necos was sliding up and down too much in one of the songs he did, I'm glad that Aaron stuck up for him because I was about to message athier and say, well, that's how they sing, and that's why if you don't know what things are like in other countries, then maybe this should all be American singers. I love listening to people from other places sing, but like when Plip Plop sang country and people were putting him down because of his accent and because country wasn't popular in England, then people should take that into consideration to. Think of genres that everyone can perform well, no matter where they're from. I'm sorry to keep talking about that, but that was the biggest problem I saw so far in the show that they could work on for next year. But I do agree with what everyone else has been saying to. I guess the only other thing is, that when people judge, think of different things to touch on. I do have to give Christina credit, even though she judged like she was a teacher, she did point out ot other things that the other judges didn't, and that's ok. But even if judges agree with each other, I think it might not be the best thing to say, like Liz said or like Athier said, but that's just my own oppinion. If anyone doesn't agree with that, it's ok, I just thought I'd point that out. But I really do want to see another Icon show next year. I love listening to everyone perform and of course everyone has their own views on who's singing, and I'm glad that's how it is, because without an audience, where's the voting and results for who goes onto the next round? So hopefully there are things that people can write down and learn from this year, and if there is another show next year, like I'm hoping, then it'll be bigger, and better and will get more people and maybe a bigger audience involved. So good luck to everyone on making this happen because without you, we wouldn't be talking about this now.
Best wishes,
Jasmin
Hmmm no actually I don’t think that all staff meetings should be made public knowledge and that the audience should be consulted once the process has begun so to speak, but I do think that once this run of icon has finished, that questions should be asked of the audience, what did they like, what did they dislike, what would they have liked to have seen done differently, I guess this topic could act as that in a way.
And I think that maybe staff positions should be applied for, rather than staff just being elected, so the rules of being a staff member would be apparent at the time of application. A form could appear on the main page, similar to the form that is put there when community leader positions are available, and those who are interested would then apply and staff would be elected from the applicants. I don’t necessarily see why staff rules should be made public after that point, as long as there actually Is a set list of staff rules that the staff themselves are made aware of, in the event of misconduct, the public can then be made aware of which rule was broken when a statement is issued.
Good points Jasmin.
During the show you described it was the only show that i didn't hear the comments of the jadges untill the broadcast so i couldn't answer to say that this is how we sing.
I would suggest and i should think about it before that we should send to them the original song we are covering so they have got an idea of what we are singing about. Some songs it was the first time they heard them.
But for the next shows i appreshiate the fact that i had the oportunity to listen to their comments and answer before the broadcast.
Appart from that i think zone icon was good and i enjoyed being in it.
well I'm glad. And I'm sorry I spelled your name wrong Nikos, but jaws said it right when I said it, so yeah... lol sorry. But I'm glad that Zone Icon is world wide in some ways, but I just wanted to point that out for the next show they do next year just so that if they do have people like you or someone else singing, they know what to look for.
Speaking only for myself, I think that a lot of good suggestions have been made here. This contest has given us a good idea of what works, what doesn't, and what could be improved. I know that I couldn't have predicted some of the twists and turns along the way.
I think clearer rules in the beginning and such would be good. Alo for members of staff, an application process woul be great. Clearly there were some issues working as a team for some staff members, not pointing fingers.
Staff roles and positions are just that roles. When it dcomes to personal discussions like on vt, those roles should be dropped for that time and used only when doing show related things. A number of issues came up on vt that were things to do with people's personal opinino, and the staff griped at them about it. That isn't appropriate. For more of my views if people really care, go to the other topic. i think there is a lot to learn, and if the admin and staff really take suggestions here and the other board seriously, i think another season would be wonderful.
Shawn
Claire, you've got some great points, and so do some other people,
the only thing i will point out is that the reason why we are doing it live is so we can't tamper with our voices at all.
if we all could take the tracks away, we could make them sound great, and that isn't the point of icon.
the point is to find who the audience like best live as it were, and that's what we are doing.
some people aren't as skilled as others also, and it takes time to learn a track, us contestants have been pushed quite hard when it comes to that.`
I agree with Aaron. i think that the staff needs a refresh, accept for the audio team, which could actually use a few aditions. See the other board.
I think one area that wasn't touched at all this year in zone icon was the ability of the contestance of singing backing vocals as well as solo.
If there is a zone icon next year maybe one week's genre should be backing vocals. The contestance would have to find a song with only one voice in it and harmonice with it. That would be very interesting.
I hope there is one next year because i enjoyed this one.
There were good things brought up with Icon, and unfortunately bad things happened as well. I guess, though, that that's just part of how things work sometimes. No one's perfect, and sometimes things unexpected happen and you just have to learn how to run with them as is.
Just my two sense...
Experience is, and will always be the best teacher. To that end, there were definitely some things that could have been done quite differently.
For one thing, I think the results shows should be done live, without all the recaps of the performances, and the judges' comments inserted over them. It's just time consuming, but the reason I think they should be done live is so no judges can know the poll results before the show. This way, the judges, as well as the listeners, will know at the same time. The only person who should know the results should be somebody whose only job would be to monitor that, and I'd say they shouldn't be affiliated with the site in any way. That way, it would be a more sterile situation.
Also, the audio team should stay! They did a great job, and Mark was a great Emcee.
As far as the judges go, I think they should all have musical experience, most particularly in vocal performance, studio work, or production. One more thing...No Zone staff should be involved in any way, except where web site stuff is concerned.
Does that mean some of these people who have nothing better to do but piss and moan about how unfair everything is won't be able to find something else to complain about? Of course not! Those types always complain. However, it will put everyone on a more even playing field, so those people will just look like fools even more than they already do!
yes yes, I agree with that. Good point.